Not for the VOLs. That would essentially mean VOLs would not be able to play the game because they'd need to spend all day hanging around the noobs watching their trades. And/or we'd need a lot more VOLs. Either/both of these things would lead to accusations of VOL 'nazism' and ingame lack of freedom being far more commonplace and, frankly, justified.

It would also quite likely have the opposite from the intended effect as people would be less careful about trading because they'd rely on a VOL sorting out their idiocy and kissing it all better. That is, if it worked, which is unlikely for the reasons given above.

The more likely situation is that it wouldn't work which would mean that there would (a) be the increase in whining about VOLs pointed out above and (b) be either no reduction or possibly even an increase in whining about thieves in shout/on the forum because the theft was not witnessed by a VOL or the VOL did witness the theft but didn't take the same view as the whiner, and so on.


Well this was the problem in B3. There was no (sane) way to punish the thief, so the victim got no satisfaction and could only whine.

Hopefully with an evolving jail and other punishtainments to come, this will be re-balanced.


Which is why it sucks.

I dont quiet get your point Smacky. On one hand you endorse thievery which is fine. On the other hand you are making alot of buzz about punishing thieves. So just let them do their little evilness. And the guy who gets robbed got himself to blame. Or is it, that you like to raise your feeling of importancy as a person or as a vol by performing punishment rituals?

Smacky a lowly Vol? *me steps away from selfmade*
Smacky made it quite clear that he does NOT endorse thievery, he endorses the POSSIBILITY of thievery. This means that he prefers there to be a risk of thievery, just as there is in real life. The punishments are strictly game related, not player related, and ARE a bit of a joke atm, designed punish the character being played, not the player playing the character.
Still, as I have stated on many occaisions, safe trading is simply a matter of trust. Personally I have never had any problems, and whilst it is annoying for a while, you learn from any negative experiences.
AND I agree with the point you thrust into the argument, that the guy who gets robbed got himself to blame. 9/10 times, the guy just didn't check out the guy he was trading with, or simply dropped the items in the middle of town where every thief could see what was happening.

ok aslong as punishments are some kind of a joke, like as if a Vol summons some mob in town or such, that is fine maybe, alltho the person who is affected by it should also see it as a joke and accept this kind of roleplay aslong it goes on. If you got a real troulemaker who breaks game rules or such, then simply have him muted, kicked or banned, but generally i would advice Vols to leave the players alone with their habbits and dont judge them or interfere unnecessarily.

Edit: ok i dont know smacky's ingame status. So i guess he is a gamemaster. But then idc about statuses.

You've got it there. It's all about me and my delusions of grandeur.

ROFL!


Yes, although I might phrase it differently (as I have in this thread and others) that is how it works.

actually he's  a dungeon master :0 see they can transform themself into anything they need like gm vol dm so it can be confuseing on which the really are... i had a noob convinced that lippy was a vol and was upset that i didnt have his abilities lol...took forever to convince him lippy wasn't a vol hence why he can teleport lol

if i could i would run to a bunch of really mad loms /summon frostyglen then /goto apartment and watch happily by the priest

FWIW zapping Frostyglen and otherwise hassling him is nearly as much fun as doing it to Theoris. I recommend it to all DMs.

I find the whole jailing thing stupid and humiliating. Do you expect your "victim" to stand in the spot where you locked it and agree to this? If ppl cant play this game, i guess they got better things to do, than to watch for Smacky's punishment rituals to wear off. Currently i feel that Smacky is terrorizing players in a way that is very idle and ridiculous. He sees himself as Judge Dread or something. Leave the players alone! If you got nothing else to do than terrorize players then do something in the development area, create some maps, so that you come down from your high horse and do something useful. Why should others leave the game because of your misbehaviour?

Edit: because everytime when Smacky is on i see newbie players shouting: "Why am i jailed" in disbelieve. So if that is the way you want to treat newcomers, this game is gonna die soon.

Thread split from here -- Smacky

This is too funny.

95% of my 'victims' ask me to jail them. Repeatedly. In some cases for a total of 1-3 hours. No, I'm not sure I understand that either.

As for that 5% who get jailed for theft etc or during investigations into theft -- escape. Or bribe the guard. It's quite simple. I'm not going to rejail you for escaping or for the original crime (however when the community has twigged to the easy way out I will make it more difficult :twisted:). This is part of the game. It's like the fact that a cute furry pigrat thing called a Mugwump can kill you. What a stupid and humiliating way to die. Kill the Mugwumps! They are terrorizing players!

As I ranted above, I am more than happy to ignore theft and whining about theft if the community now decides it wants this, but if you've listened to the community over the past 3 years that is not what it wants. And other proposed ways of dealing with it (such as making it impossible through some form of wuss trading) are not good for the game (removing choice is not good).

Jail, and players' reactions to it, is very interesting. I am constantly surprised.


That's a good idea. I never thought of that. Develop something! Yes I ought to give that a go. :lol:

oxo
Smacky the Terror of Daimonin

Smacky, if you want to play BDSM games, you have to check out other dungeons than these :lol: . Anyway, your comment was kinda funny and selfironic.

But still: Freedom for the players! Stop harassment from Vols/Gms! (k, that should be written on a flyer and spread)

well ive allready stated my opinion, that i dont like this whole jailing thing, when its not just for fun and against the will of the player. If thievery is possible in the game, then youve to accept, that some ppl try to do it. They cant be punished for that, at least not in such a way. When pvp is out, they could be declared as outlaws, so that every1 could attack them anywhere, and even get some kind of head money for it. That would be fun, and a real ingame feature. If its for the shout window: its better to ignore or to mute ppl that cause trouble. So they cant say anything but are still allowed to play.

Edit: hey i have a cool idea of making ppl outlaws in pvp: there could be some mob areas, where they could go, where the mobs would actually accept them as their own kind, and wont attack them. There could be a whole city of outlaws. If one of the "good" players comes along the outlaw-mobs would attack him and thereby help the players who they are after. On the other hand outlaws wont be accepted in the "good" cities, and guards would attack them. There could be neutral cities aswell, where every1 is welcome.

I accept that as theft is possible some people will try it. That is fine. That's the basis of my argument against wuss trading.

But possible != liked or 'allowed'. Hm, it seems I've countered this argument several times already this week. Basically, conflict = fun. Without conflict you have no game. Same as without conflict you have no story.

Well the outlaw thing has been suggested before. By me for one here:

http://www.daimonin.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=776&highlight=fugitive

This is another feature I hope to put into the prison stuff (not necessarily via PvP but with NPC guards hunting fugitives down). However, that requires some fairly bigtime AI work, and currently that sort of NPC interaction isn't possible anyway (but from what I understand may be in b5/6).

PvP won't work in the sense you're suggesting. IOW it will only be available on a few specific maps -- that is both Ps have to agree to it before they can v.

Also, how is being labelled an outlaw and then hunted indefinitely (ie, I presume you stay an outlaw until you are killed) more 'fair' than being jailed for ten minutes. Or would outlaw status wear off if you avoided other players for ten minutes?

And being stolen from is against the (conscious at least) will of the victim, so why go all gooey over the thief?

Yes, jail, as has been said, is nothing to do with the shout window or muting.

Id say it is normally enough punishment for thief if his reputation is destroyed by what he does. I think all the good or bad latest things a player has done should be stored as his history in short comments and he would be given a certain char status in community based on this. These comments could be done by other players or Vols who had to deal with him in someway. So if i had to deal with him and dont know him, i would probably ask about his reputation first to get an idea, whether he is thrustworthy.

The outlaw status had to be something special once pvp is out. It should last only for a certain time and should only come into force if a persons reputation sinks to the lowest lvl and/or if a Vol declares so, so that the person was a fugitive to everyone and could be attacked by everyone to give him a hard time, but also had certain areas to flee to. That is my idea of it

LOL See the newest addition to jail (went live earlier today I think).

Anyway, yes, having you rep dragged through the mud is the worst punishment, and that's of course something the community does all by itself anyway. I am very much against a permanent record of these misdeeds (which is why it really pisses me off when people bring their whining to the forums about theft, etc).

OTOH the community itself is not satisfied when (seemingly) nothing is done to/about thieves. Which then leads to things like forum posts naming alleged thieves. This was the problem in B3. The community had no outlet for their frustrations. Thieves could steal but the victim/community could do nothing concrete about it. So they would shout a lot, getting more and more upset/spammy/sweary until a VOL muted THEM for breaking the GR. Which upset the community even more, and refocussed their frustrations on the VOLs. MEANwhile, the thief fell down laughing.

Jail can break this cycle and address the communty's frustrations directly without actually removing the freedom of behaviour of players to be thieves if they want (but realise there are consequences for your actions) or putting players into some bizarre cabbage patch universe where all the sharp edges have been smoothly filed down (IOW, if you throw your items around, hey, they'll get stolen -- that's life).

PvP is not an alternative, if only becasue it doesn't even exist yet.

EDIT: Do a search on 'reputation' for some posts on why this wouldn't work as an actual gameplay element.

I think that, at least until PvP is implemented (if it ever is going to be, in two weeks, of course), that players caught stealing from others should be banned from gameplay for a set period of time. The jail thing is somewhat of a joke. Or, perhaps the player could automatically be placed in jail for a set period of time, in lieu of being banned from the game. That would serve the same purpose; they'd be prevented from playing but they would at least be able to interact with others to a certain degree.

Just my $0.02.